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Ultra Instinct is sometimes refered as a transformation and sometimes as a technique/state. Now apparently there are thousands of fans who believes Ultra Instinct can be used on top of another transformation, just like kaioken can be used on top of Super Saiyan Blue and make Super Saiyan Blue kaioken, they believe you can have a Super Saiyan Blue Ultra Instinct or a Super Saiyan God Ultra Instinct.

Personally I dont believe this is possible, but there are thousands who thinks so and this situation already has consequences in the Dragon Ball fandom, for example there is a videogame mod of Dragon Ball Xenoverse which allows you to use "Goku Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXHuC2d-0-c&t=9m18s

Goku Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan Blue

and there are also fan arts made about it like this one,

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FBGPK6OZsZU/maxresdefault.jpg

Are all these people just wrong or is there any hint/explanation in Dragon Ball Super that states this is possible?

Pablo
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  • I think it can. from the beginning whis was trying to teach it to goku and vegita while they where training. the power up is because every part of his body is thinking for it self and optimizing and using the strength they have as efficiently as possible while goku can control his overall strength. so it is not a transformation it is a state. whether gokus body can handle this mush energy being channeled through his body as another matter – Henjin Nov 15 '17 at 07:56

8 Answers8

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This is an interesting question, however, as of now I think the answer would be a no, with regard to stacking it up on top of SSJB

In the anime, The UI transformation was indicated to be a massive power multiplier, even a lot stronger than SSJB+Kaioken*20, which is a reason why we see Goku being able to block Jiren's hits despite his god of destruction like power and also overpower high tier characters like toppo without any effort. Also, despite the Self movement ability being a skill, we see Goku undergoing a transformation and he doesn't utilise it naturally like Whis or the other angels. However, it is possible to stack kaioken on top of it as kaioken is a special technique and not really a transformation. Hence goku would be able to utilise Kaioken with the UI transformation assuming his body is capable of handling it.

Now there is a possibility Goku might be able to adapt this transformation into his base form where he is capable of utilising his self-movement ability without undergoing the transformation. Maybe something like the SSJ transformation during the cell arc, where Goku mastered it and managed to stay in it for a prolonged period of time as though he was in his natural stage. Also this can also refer to him absorbing the god form into his base form or him utilising god ki in his base form.

Although, this doesn't seem practical as the UI transformation multiplier seems to be significantly higher than SSJB based on Goku's fight with Jiren so I don't see why goku would wan't to stack the skill with SSJB. Maybe utilising kaioken with the UI transformation might increase his power humongously.
Gary Andrews30
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Based on some research on Ultra Instinct I'd say yes. However there is no factual data showing that it happened or is about to happen (yet).

Let me explain why it is possible. First of all, what actually is Ultra Instinct? It is a state of the body where it reacts without the brain having to process the thoughts of responding. Making reflexes instant since the muscles respond without the brains having to process it. You can look at it as the muscles being capable of thinking on their own. Now this is simply a state of mind for the muscles (it sounds weird, but it is most accurate way to describe it).

Now powering up (with things such as super saiyan, kaioken or maybe even another form such as Freeza's forms), affects the stamina, ki and power. These 3 are unrelated to the state of the muscles. And we know for a fact they do stack with each other if different techniques are used. For example kaioken+any saiyan form. So if the same "buffs" can stack, why can't different ones?

What the muscles do and what the ki does are 2 seperate things. Muscles need calories (stamina) and input from the brain to act (normally). Energy attacks require ki. Eleminating the input from the brain is what Ultra Instinct does, meaning the ki and stamina remains unaffected. By this logic it is completely possible to have a ki related buff active while having Ultra Instinct active.

My main source about Ultra Instinct is DBS itself and the episodes where it was shown as well as the episode earlier on when Goku and Vegeta were training with Whis and where Whis gave the example about his body being able to avoid the poop when it isn't wearing shoes. It was described as a state where the body can think for its own. Other than that you can find a lot information in the dbs wiki about ultra insinct.

ploopploop
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  • I think at some point Dragon Ball Super writers are going to have to fix this because if Ultra Instinct is only state and not a transformation why Goku gets an aura and grey eyes and other users like Wiss dont get it? – Pablo Nov 16 '17 at 10:49
  • Most likely something else is acting up as well when Goku uses Ultra Instinct, ofcourse this is pure speculation, but maybe he triggers something alongside Ultra Instinct that has an effect on his ki. Otherwise Whis and the others capable of using it would have the same aura at the very least as well. But yeah I agree they have to fix it or explain it as it is currently missleading. – ploopploop Nov 16 '17 at 12:12
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In the anime episode 129 actually for a brief moment Goku is on his SSJform during Ultra Instinct... SSJ Ultra instinct Don't know if it's just a mistake or a spoiler but it does happen so the answer is yes

Agiso
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There is an answer for this in the last manga chapter (#72) and in manga (#73)

(Spoilers)

Goku uses ultra instinct on top of the super saiyan god transformation in manga #72 and ultra instinct on top of super saiyan blue in manga #73

Pablo
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Yes I think Goku could at least go super saiyan and kaikoen in ultra instinct. Ultra instinct is basically like a tremendous power up in my book because anyone can use it Master Roshi in the Manga has the ability to use it or at least some of his movements use it even Beerus and Whis say those movements look familiar. Goku couldn't go blue or god though in ultra instinct because those transformations put a lot of pressure on his body

Cody
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I’d say yes, at least, with Ultra Instinct Omen, because that version doesn’t change the hair. Due to UI Omen being a state and not it’s own transformation it is reasonable to assume that SSJ or Kaioken could be stacked on top of it. Considering that in UI Omen, Goku still thought about his attacks. But in MUI, it was all automatic, so Goku could become a Super Saiyan in UI Omen due to him still having his mind linked with his body.

TrainerBlueTube
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Yes ultra instinct is a technique but whis later on in a manga said his ultra instinct(goku)he see ui as a transformation rather then his base as the angles there normal state is ui that’s why goku hasent reach his full potential and yes has kaio ken can be added to ssj or ssjb ultra instinct should do the same but on a god level

Jeremiah mason
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Yes this is possible if u look in the manga Goku stacks (Super Saiyan God) With ultra instinct so it's possible. But i don't think he will be using this "transformation" often now what always get's people is that they think ui is a transformation and it's not. It's a technique. There stating in the manga that goku will be using ui as his base form and the silver hair and aura will be a trump card.

SethZoid
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