In the recent story of Dragon Ball Super, the present Zamasu has been killed by Lord Beerus but is still alive in the future. It has been told that Goku Black is Zamasu in Goku's Body, while Zamasu is the one from the past. All these things seem messed up. Can anyone provide a simple explanation of how all this timeline stuff works?
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The anime feels like it backed itself into a corner here. The explanation was the Ring of Time allowed him to exist independent of the past him who was killed by Beerus. Black explained that he was infact the Zamasu who fought Goku, and that is what made him take Goku's body. What was strange is that he is depicted taking Goku's body during the Farming session, which happened long before Zamasu's fight. Its getting hard to tell Which one is which. – Ryan Oct 12 '16 at 17:47
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isnt that worth an answer though @ryan ? as that is what is stated in universe – Thomas Oct 13 '16 at 16:48
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@Thomas If i wanted to make it a real answer, I would need more time than I Want to put in right now to make it a good answer.I suppose i could make it an unsupported, OK answer, but I am not fond of those, and plenty of people are happy to punish such answers. – Ryan Oct 13 '16 at 16:58
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The explanation is really quite simple and has been something that we have had since the age old Dragon Ball. And its called the hole, the plot-hole, the plot holes that have sparked a ton of debate in the series and will now continue to do so since multiverse theory has started. – Callat Oct 13 '16 at 17:17
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It all starts with Trunks in the Android saga
Future Trunks lived in a very bleak future and was backed into a corner with Gohan's death and his Super Saiyan transformation not being strong enough to stop Android's 17 and 18.
So in comes the time machine to go back and save Goku from dying from a heart virus.
When Trunks travelled backwards through time, he created a branching time-line. Let's call the present world World A (where Trunks pwns Mecha-Frieza)
and the other world World B (Androids wrecking s***). Now nothing Trunks does in either world affects the other because they are two separate time-lines.
Because Trunks broke the taboo big-time by going backwards.
It was mentioned in Super that anytime time is travelled reversely, a time-ring is born to give representation of a new universe being created.
Fast Forward to Dragon Ball Super
Now in DBS, Buu was never revived in World B because Trunks killed Babidi and Dabura due to a power buff he got from training with Supreme Kai and Kibito with the Z-Sword.
However, it is revealed in the manga that the battle with Dabura took a heavy downturn, as not only did the Z-Sword get turned to stone and obliterated (eg. Grandpa Supreme Kai sealed within it was killed),
but Dabura killed Kibito
and Babidi killed Supreme Kai.
We already know that no Supreme Kai = no god of destruction aka no Beerus because their existence is a set. Which also equates to no Whis because Whis is an angel that exists solely to serve the god of destruction. This also means that the Potara Fusion and Elder Kai unlock ability are non-existent in World B.
So looking at the Gowasu in World B, it was shown in the anime that he was murdered by Zamasu who took a time-ring and collected the Super Dragon Balls and wished for Goku's body.
With that time-ring he went to the past of World B.
This is where things get icky
Because Black did reverse travel like Trunks, he made a new time-line. In this World C he was still plain old Zamasu but was planning to kill Gowasu as he had just sparred with Goku.
Black killed Gowasu for a second time and influenced his past self to join him. This World B past tense Zamasu collected the Super Dragon Balls and wished for an immortal body. With that, immortal Zamasu got a new time ring from Black's reversal which allowed them both to go back to World B and kill all the gods of each universe in that timeline.
The real kick in the chops
So Beerus found out, got mad, and killed Zamasu in World A. That means nothing for two reasons: first, Beerus' actions do not matter in this world because Trunks already separated the timelines way back in Dragon Ball Z; second, even if by some stretch of imagination God's affected the time-line differently, it does not matter because of the power of time ring.
THE PLOTHOLES HERE ARE GAPPING ONES
- What happened to universe C?
- What happened to Earth in universe C? Since in that case there would be 2 Trunks (I have no idea what the plural of Trunks is).
- Why was there like 5 time rings in the episode that Gowasu revealed them? Trunks has not jumped back and forth 5 times. Or has he? Also, what's the difference between a green ring and a white ring?
NOTE: This is why when anime delves into multi-verse, time-travel stuff, it always turns out bad unless it's Steins;Gate. <3
EDIT: Finally complete!! Getting all those screenshots was a hassle but I think my answer is as thorough as it can get.
EDIT: Episode 67 of Super reveals why there are so many time rings. The answer is:
2 for Trunks,
1 for Cell,
1 for Black,
1 for Beerus, and
1 for Whis
= 6 time rings as shown below.
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3Cell also travelled back in time, so it's possible Cell also created an alternate universe. – Sigfried666 Nov 10 '16 at 20:15
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True. Cell definitely intervened when he went back. But there are still two more unaccounted for if we count trunks for 2 and cell for one. – Callat Nov 10 '16 at 21:10
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1Didn't the Z warriors travel back in time and space to fight Saiyans (as training) in the hyperbolic time chamber? – zibadawa timmy Nov 11 '16 at 13:51
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@zibadawatimmy yes and no, back in the saiyan arc when Goku was on his way to first meet king kai. However when they went they didn't actually intervene in anything they went got their butts kicked and Kami pulled them back. I know that Kami sent them to a different point in time but it wasn't Earth and it also wasn't specified if they went backwards or forwards through time. – Callat Nov 11 '16 at 20:20
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1@KazRodgers Saiyans were already a species with only 4 members at that time, including Goku (but not Gohan). That they're future Saiyans is highly improbable, and I thought it was explicitly stated that they were from the past. – zibadawa timmy Nov 11 '16 at 23:10
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2@zibadawatimmy No actually that wasn't the hyperbolic time chamber. That was the pendulum room and it enables the mind to project to any point in time. It is not physical time travel. Reference here: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Pendulum_Room – Callat Nov 13 '16 at 09:24
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1@KazRodgers At least one more time ring can also be attributed to Trunks. Two rings are from the first and second times Trunks traveled to the past. A third is created by Cell when he traveled to the past. But something peculiar happens during Cell's trip to the past because Cell interacts with Trunks before his second return trip to the future. For this reason, Trunks creates a new branch in the *future* timeline when he goes home after the Cell Games. – David H Jan 23 '17 at 21:06
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next confusing thing that now arises is during these events it was said that all the angels were also gone with the god of destructions when Zamasu killed kais. But during current tournament of power, the angels still remain when their universes are wiped out. – Vivek Mishra Aug 26 '17 at 17:44
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You got the worlds mixed up, World B Zamasu never met Goku and would have no reason to use the Super Dragon Balls to wish for Goku to switch bodies with him, it's Zamasu from the world created when Whis used his temporal do-over to go back so Beerus could kill Zamasu before he killed Gowasu. From Zamasu's point of view he killed Gowasu with Beerus and Whis thinking they'd killed him, no one was there to stop him from gathering the Super Dragonballs and wishing for Goku's body which he envied after sparring with him in universe 10 and using the time ring created by Trunks splitting the timeline to tell Goku about the Androids as that world had no Supreme Kai and therefore no Beerus, who was the only one with the will who powerful enough to stop him. He then went around and killed the Supreme Kais of the other 10 universes (He'd already killed Gowasu and thus universe 10's god of destruction)
Once in Future Trunks' timeline he met up with the Zamasu of that Universe and helped him kill Gowasu and gather the dragonballs and wish for Immortality and then a year later, wish for the Dragonballs to be destroyed.
Dom Vasta
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Green ones are the alternate timelines created. White one is the original. It would be interesting to see if someone will find a Goku from another timeline (when he was saved by Trunks and prior to Trunks returning) to fight this Goku. Obviously, Goku is the key player who screwed it all up when the heart disease didn't kill him.
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So strictly speaking the original and unaltered timeline is the future Trunks came from the first time, with a dead by Heart-attack-Goku, everyone killed by androids, then Trunks destroying the androids and eventually being killed by Cell who abandones the timeline afterwards, i.e an Earth with no superbeings at all. So Kaioshin has no one to hire for stopping Babidí.
Cell travel forced Trunks to stay in present time and train with Vegeta so he forged a diferent future were he stomped everyone (even Cell) until Black appeared, this fucked-up time-line was eventually erased by Zeno-sama.
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according to this, zamasu wouldn't have been a bad guy as everyone on earth was already dead as they were killed by Cell so there was no need for Zamasu to become evil – Vivek Mishra Nov 28 '17 at 05:09