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The in-game encyclopedia entry for Rider in Fate/Stay night lists her as chaotic good. This is true regardless of what route you are on and who is her master. However, at several points in the story she is noted as being evil, and it's said that the only reason she (along with a few other servants) could be summoned is because the holy grail was corrupted. These seem to pretty strongly contradict each other.

Am I missing something subtle (maybe a translation issue, or maybe I'm misunderstanding alignment) or is this a mistake by TYPE-MOON and Rider should be listed as evil in the encyclopedia?

Logan M
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  • Chaotic-good alignment basically says "does what he wants, follows his own free will", so they're not necessarily *good* as perceived by everyone else. Also, it may be based on the alignment of the person that became a heroic spirit. – Xeo Dec 12 '12 at 05:22
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    Gilgamesh was also Chaotic Good and he was both a jerk and an ass. – кяαzєя Dec 12 '12 at 05:36
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    I understand that, but Rider is literally described as "evil" in the text of the game by the narrator. Regardless of whether or not she's chaotic, evil doesn't seem compatible with chaotic good. – Logan M Dec 12 '12 at 05:50

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Chaotic Good basically means you´ll do whatever it takes to complete a noble goal. Gilgamesh´s Chaotic Good is what he was for the most of his life, where he was at first a massive jerk and a tyrant, but after befriending Enkidu he became a fair king with a habit of using force against anything hostile with a pulse, hence the Chaotic bit. But due to the depression from Enkidu´s death and the craziness he got from the Grail (he wasn´t corrupted by it, but it did, according to Nasu, make him alot less sane), He´s more akin to Lawful Evil in Zero (pre-grail bath) and Chaotic Evil in Stay/Night.

Basically, Rider means well but is willing to do things that could be considered evil for her goal.

Christian Aurig Frøkjær
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Fundamentally, Rider doesn't seem to shy away from evil deeds - most notably her actions at the school. She doesn't perform them with glee, but unlike, say, Saber, she doesn't resist her Master's commands when they lead her in that direction.

I tried to obtain a full transcript of the game to analyze every time she is mentioned as "evil"; however I couldn't find any. The following is from my memory: Most narration is made from the standpoint of another character, usually Emiya Shirou. And you can't blame him, or his compatriots, for labeling Rider as evil; however, most of this is more due to her Master's orders.

In Heaven's Feel, Rider's true goal is revealed - and it is, in fact, a noble one. All of the previous events are implied to have been because of her loyalty to Sakura - disobeying Zouken or Shinji would have had direct repercussions on her. In fact, Rider is significantly more powerful in Heaven's Feel than in any other path - this is most likely due to a reluctance and half-heartedness when obeying Shinji; in other words, she was faking it and not giving her all in hopes of being defeated.

Fadeway
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  • Thanks. Maybe I remembered something wrong. Anyway, if the game doesn't actually say that she's evil anywhere, then I guess there's no problem with her alignment being chaotic good. – Logan M Dec 15 '12 at 22:01
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I shouldn't reply to an old post, but I will leave this here for people who may end up here like me.

In the Nasuverse, or at least in the Fate series, the usage of "traditional D&D alignement" isn't precise. Well, it is precise but in a different interpretation.

The Good vs Evil axis regards not the moral of the person but his personality. Good and Evil are personality types, good means open, brave, honest and magnimonious. Evil means selfish, cowardly, sly and focused on self-gratification. It also regards how, even unconsciously, a person see himself.

For example: Medea knows that what she is doing is bad/evil (harming people for her own good), and she does so following a selfish desire. Meanwhile, Gilgamesh, who want to fuck up the entire world is doing this on a honest proposal to save humanity. In his own way, but that's his objective.

Law and Chaos are principals- Law means you care about some likely very abstract concept to the point of total self-denial. Chaos means you feel no obligation towards anything but your own whims. A Lawful-Nasu character, also, follows more rigid and generally good (in our traditional interpretation) morals, while Chaotics are generally connected to no-morals whatsoever, only thinking about their true desire, and so are more "evil" in a traditional way.

This is shown, again, in Gilgamesh and Medea, with a little bit of Cu and Saber. Gilgamesh (chaotic) even if he is working to improve humanity, he does so without any consideration for little lives but an eye on the general condition of the race. Killing something like 90% of humanity is good, if it helps the remaining 10% to reach a better condition.

Medea is evil indeed, but not without any consideration. Just watch how she harms people, but avoid kills and has a particular hate for harming children. She isn't complitely without any moral lines.

While Lawful sees a perfect example in Saber and I guess that it is enough. Moral, putting oneself in danger for a greater good, following a (strict) code of behaviour and so one. But she is Good. Cu is an example of the same thing, but on a neutral level.

Hyperversum
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