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There are two reasons I have this query (spoiler alert!):

Firstly, Obito didn't have Susanoo. Considering you need to awaken both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, while Obito never used even one of them, how was Kakashi able to use Obito's eyes to produce Susanoo? If he copied Susanoo, then how did he do that? Is it even possible to copy something like Susanoo?

Secondly, not being of the Uchiha bloodline, he faces immense problems in using even a single eye for long periods of time. He almost lost half his chakra by making a lightning clone against Deva Path. On top of that, now he has both eyes after a long drawn battle fighting the likes of Zetsu, Obito, Madara and now Kaguya, how is he even supposed to stand?

Ero Sɘnnin
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TheVitruvianAnalogy
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  • I don't think this site is for spotting plot holes. Even if you put them in questions. – ytg Aug 09 '14 at 08:52
  • I agree, you've phrased it as a question but you already seem to have decided on your answer. The reason he can still stand is that a while ago Naruto gave him and half the alliance huge chakra boosts, and also, God knows what Obitio actually did to him, but now that he has both eyes maybe Obito also gave him whatever the Uchihas have that means they are able to use the Sharingan more effectively. – Qiri Aug 09 '14 at 14:16
  • You don't need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to use Susano'o. This is shown by Madara and Kakashi. Sasuke called Susano'o the THIRD ability because his MS granted two abilities. – ᴅᴀɴɪᴇʟッ Apr 19 '21 at 12:48

6 Answers6

5

There is no plothole. Anyone with 2 MS can use Susanoo. Kakashi received chakra from Naruto/Obito.

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krikara
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  • See my comment to JNat but he doesn't have two. Madara has his other Sharingan. It was stolen from Kakashi. – Quikstryke Aug 12 '14 at 16:22
  • @Quikstryke I give up lol. – krikara Aug 13 '14 at 07:26
  • @Quikstryke Obito gave both of them back. Plothole as it may be, it happened, even though Madara had taken one of them first... – JNat Aug 13 '14 at 11:22
  • @jNat Yup I acknowledged that he gave both of them to kakashi even though I have no idea how he got it both back. Did Madara actually take the time to give back and retransplant Obito's original eye after he took his rinnegan back lol – Quikstryke Aug 13 '14 at 13:54
  • @Quikstryke As [this question](http://anime.stackexchange.com/q/553/49) explores, apparently Sharingan can be duplicated as a side effect of using Edo Tensei. My guess is that somehow after death the Sharingan are returned to the original owner, even though he may only be in his 'chakra form', as Obito was. This is the only plausible explanation I have for this so far. I find it a weak one, though, in terms of plot. – JNat Aug 13 '14 at 14:11
  • Yup sorry its like I'm in two posts right now, but I also agreed with the edo statement but the problem was I also read a few chapters back just to confirm this and he had it before he even died. – Quikstryke Aug 13 '14 at 14:19
5

Aside from the obvious chakra problem - which has been shown to be a problem on previous fights (namely vs Deidara, IIRC) - there don't seem to be any plotholes, IMO.

As I've pointed out in this answer:

  • Amaterasu, "representing the light of the material world"1, is performed with the right eye.
  • Tsukuyomi, "the nightmare realm, representing the world of the mind and darkness"1, is performed with the left eye.
  • Susano'o is "the strength of the tempestuous force that resides only within those of have mastered"1 both of the above techniques.

Granted we haven't seen Kakashi perform any of those, but we haven't seen Madara perform them either, and he mastered Susano'o all the same- That being said, I don't think Kakashi was able to perform Susano'o due to the Sharingan's copying ability, but rather because he now possesses both Sharingan.

As for the chakra problem, maybe the next chapter will shed some light on that, but let's also remember that Obito gave Kakashi both Sharingan not in his physical form, but only as a 'blob of chakra', and he may have transferred some chakra over to Kakashi on the process.

1Naruto: The Official Character Databook

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JNat
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  • He doesn't possess both. The first one he was given was taken by Madara to go after Obito when he was healing Naruto. – Quikstryke Aug 12 '14 at 16:21
  • Have you read the latest chapter (688)? 'Cause he's got both, yeah – JNat Aug 12 '14 at 18:38
  • Seems like a plot hole...as Kakashi definitely lost his eye to Madara the whole reason why Obito wants to give Sharingan back to Kakashi. I could live with that maybe he was in a state like edo where the eyes return when you are dead, but he seemed to have both before he died...Guess its time to start a new thread when did he get both eyes. – Quikstryke Aug 12 '14 at 18:55
  • The plothole is the fact that each sharingan can have one unique ability and Kakashi's pair of eyes each has a different version of kamui. Obito has stated in the past that only a select few can use Susanoo and implying those who use both Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi can also use Susanoo. Everything aligns perfectly because Susanoo in Japanese Mythology is the third sibling of Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Madara's moon plan was to reflect his eye to cast infinite Tsukuyomi. That means he is able to use Tsukuyomi in one of his eyes, which makes sense as he can use Susanoo also. – krikara Aug 13 '14 at 06:54
  • Up until now, the prerequisites for Susanoo have remained consistent. But now, Kakashi comes out of nowhere with Susanoo which totally disregards all of Kishimoto's previous subtle hints as well the nature of the Japanese mythology. – krikara Aug 13 '14 at 06:56
  • @krikara As I've pointed out on [this answer](http://anime.stackexchange.com/a/2784/49), I don't think every Sharingan can have one unique ability. Besides Kamui and Kotoamatsukami, I don't think we've ever seen any techniques unique to the user's Sharingan. Also, Kamui having two different versions may be due to the fact that Obito and Kakashi have different "chakra signatures", thus manifesting the technique differently. – JNat Aug 13 '14 at 11:26
  • I maybe wrong on this but I thought early into the shippudan series kakashi alluded that Kamui was a power he achieved that was similar to Mangekyo...(basically his eye's version of it). And it was confirmed with sasuke that every person awakens their own version of Mangekyo eyes. Will find reference and repost. – Quikstryke Aug 13 '14 at 14:16
  • See seperate post below from the wikia about kakashi/obito's sharingans – Quikstryke Aug 13 '14 at 14:26
  • The reason Kakashi could spam his DMS abilities is because Obito not only gave him double MS, but his remaining Rikudou chakra as well, not to mention the chakra Kurama gave Kakashi.. If you payed attention you'd see Kakashi says "I see. So Rikudou chakra also affects ones visual prowess..." which is an obvious reference to the Rikudou chakra Obito gave Kakashi. – ᴅᴀɴɪᴇʟッ Apr 12 '21 at 21:28
3

OK. So remember when Itachi transplanted some of his Mangekyou powers to Sasuke presumably through a chakra only transaction? Sasuke got Amaterasu and Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan. So it wasn't a stretch to see Kakashi unleash the Susanoo. Itachi's powers were only temporary in Sasuke, and Obito said his powers were temporary in Kakashi. Same exact thing besides Itachi and Sasuke being Uchiha but apparently you don't need to be an Uchiha to get Mangekyou Sharingan (Itachi's crow, Kakashi, Danzo). You just need chakra, which Kakashi got from Naruto and Obito.

Ero Sɘnnin
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Henrico Norris
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  • `Itachi's powers were only temporary in Sasuke` can you cite what chapter/episode you're referring to? or provide a source that says the same? – Ero Sɘnnin Jun 05 '15 at 04:09
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Easy:

Neither Obito or Kakashi had both Sharingans. but Kakashi definitely went through all the things needed to unlock it's potential but he only had one Sharingan at the time. Since it was only one, it couldn't actually activate. I think since he had at least one, once he got the other it would unlock since he previously did all the things needed to unlock it.

My mind is all scrambled right now, I don't know if the way I put it made sense.

Jon Lin
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Susanoo is awakend when you activate the abilities in both mangekyo like lets say in obito's case in the right eye going trough things and in the left eye absorb things. that's the two abilities obito awakend to use susanoo or in this case kakashi it's not necesarily needed to awaken only amaterasu and tsukuyomi to use susanoo

adrian
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I think I recall Obito saying that he need both his eyes for the sharingans true power. Or something of that sort, earlier in the series.... so I think you just need two mangekyou to use susanoo

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